[Malachai Constant]

UTM is much easier to use when in different countries also. Otherwise you have to use a different setting for each country and frequently each map.

[Hiker Boy]

In the winter, I wouldn't go up in the mountains without a GPS. I have been caught too many times in whiteout conditions where the snow has buried my wands and there are absolutely no landmarks to get compass bearings from. Following my saved tracks has helped me get out of more sketchy situations than a compass ever has. I'm not saying that a compass and a GPS are mutually exclusive...take both!

[Bob K]

What I use most when I'm off-trail: altimeter, compass, GPS. Order of importance to carry: compass, GPS, altimeter. Paper maps (along with non-GPS compasses) are still, of course, mandatory. The tiny little maps on the GPS units are clumsy and difficult to use and pretty much worthless, imo. The GPS navigation feature is potentially useful. You map out the waypoints ahead of time by clicking out a trail on your PC map (or get the waypoints from someone else who has figured them out); then the GPS unit tells you the directions to the next waypoint. GPS and waypoints are bad news for the people who don't like divulging the routes of out-of-the-way scrambles. Accurate waypoints for many of these routes *will* be published in books and on the web. I've been carrying a GPS for about 3 years and it has been useful only a couple times -- at night and when I was completely screwed up and going the wrong way. It's not useful very often; but when it's useful, it's *very* useful.

[Backpacker Joe]

I always carry a compass (never use it) and an altimeter (always use it) with me. TB

[HappyGillmore]

It seems most everyone is using an altimeter. I know my gps has one built in but for what purpose do you use your altimeter? I

[Brian Curtis]

In the Cascades the altimeter is a very important navigation aid. Because there is so much steep terrain it becomes very easy to locate yourself on a map. You know which rib or hillside or trail you are on, you take the elevation, find that elevation on the map, and you instantly know where you are. In flat areas like the Oregon Cascades, or the valley bottoms we were traveling through in Atlin Park, the altimeter is basically useless, but in the Rockies and the North Cascades it is often the best tool. I travel off trail a lot and it is rare I pull out a compass, but the altimeter is in constant use.

[Dante]

Altimeters (barometric or GPS) can be really useful for finding your way onto the more gentle contours on the map. For example, Tom and I used his GPS and my altimeter watch (which were reading pretty close to the same altitude IIRC) to find a little ramp in the steep terrain between Tnemec and Renob lakes. I'm often on or near features I can easily find on a topo, so the altimeter will quickly confirm I am where I think I am. If it doesn't, then I can dig out the compass or GPS...

[Backpacker Joe]

It appears that most of the harder core wankers use altimeters most often. TB

[Tom]

An altimeter makes it easy to figure out where you are on a map by following the contour line to the geographic feature you are at (i.e. ridgeline, gully, creek, etc). GPS alitmeters are more accurate when they get a 3D fix but you may not always have reception. It's usually easier to glance at your altimeter watch and a map.

[Dante]

If you have survivalist and/or Luddite tendencies, you can find great deals on ebay from time to time on Thommen mechanical altimeters (no batteries ).

[HappyGillmore]

I am guessing those who don't use a GPS don't hike at night, in the fog, in a heavy snow. I hike 12 months a year, day and night, in all kinds of weather. I haven't used UTM. I just plot out the trail on the GPS. Since I have a Topo/map display I can tell quickly where I am. I am going on a two day hike this weekend in the Olympics. I estimate my hike in will start around 6:30pm Friday. I plan on hiking for 5 hours before setting up camp. Just to see how UTM works I will print out a TOPO! map with UTM grid and check my location at rest stops and see if I can figure out where I am on the trail. I am always up for learning new, better, easier ways to do things. Hiking in the Olympics in December. Now that's the beauty of the Great NW.

[HappyGillmore]

When I added the UTM grid to my TOPO! map I noticed the grid follows very closely some lines/grid already on the map. I am guessing the lines are from the USGS topo maps that were used in the software. What are these lines and why are they there? Any idea if these (already existing) lines can be used instead of UTM?

[Brian Curtis]

Your guess about people not using altimeters in the fog, snow, and dark is incorrect. We've been using altimeters in all those conditions for decades before there was even such a thing as GPS. There is nothing in the conditions you mention that hamper altimeter use. Some USGS maps have a UTM grid. That may be what you are seeing. Which quad are you looking at?

[jimmymac]

[HappyGillmore]

Brian, I am headed to 10 mile camp, in the Olympic national forest. N 47 40.572', w 123 12.143'. I think it would be the "Brothers" USGS Quad. I don't know how to get the quad from the software. JimmyMac, I love the Snoopy pix.