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philfort
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philfort
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PostTue Oct 04, 2022 9:27 am 
Most of these aren't FAA violations though (those generally involve height restrictions, or not flying in zones near airports). You'd need to report it to the NPS or National Forest office, and they probably wouldn't do anything.

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Chief Joseph
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PostTue Oct 04, 2022 10:03 am 
Many technological 'advances' annoy the hell out of me and drones are near the top of the list. huh.gif

Go placidly amid the noise and waste, and remember what comfort there may be in owning a piece thereof.

Anne Elk, SpookyKite89
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jaysway
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PostTue Oct 04, 2022 10:09 am 
wyattmullen wrote:
Jake Guzman, the person in that video that inspired that channel to make the trip to Three Fingers and who accompanied them, has a history of illegal drone usage. I don't follow Jake, but a few weeks ago someone popular that I follow was naming and shaming Jake for posting a drone video from Three Fingers. This person I follow tried to reach out to Jake and explain how drones are illegal to fly at the lookout but never heard anything bcack so he decided to use his platform to expose Jake and commented on Jake's post talking about why drones are illegal to fly in wilderness areas. I don't follow Jake but I just looked at his Instagram profile today and he deleted that post, although there are past posts of drone footage at Three Fingers, including: https://www.instagram.com/reel/CXZp8wngnEW/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link and https://www.instagram.com/reel/CXHms5NgGjn/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link and https://www.instagram.com/p/CSaC1DrBK4i/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link and https://www.instagram.com/p/CSDtDpcrUbT/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link (also, can we talk about how unrealistic some of this guy's photos and videos are - look at how he distorted the mountains in these videos to make them appear steeper). I just did a quick scroll of Jake's profile and he also has a drone video from Winchester Mountain Lookout which is located in the Mt. Baker Wilderness Area that he posted 18 hours ago: https://www.instagram.com/reel/CjRIQ4oAQxl/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link. I'm not sure where this one was shot, if anyone knows could they comment on whether this is wilderness or not - https://www.instagram.com/reel/Ch-p_hBg23g/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link. Edit: Could the above video be a super-distorted Del Campo? I'm really struggling to figure out where the heck that one was shot dizzy.gif. Del Campo looks like it's in the Morning Start NRCA, do they allow drones?

melc
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altasnob
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PostTue Oct 04, 2022 10:26 am 
jaysway wrote:
someone popular that I follow was naming and shaming Jake for posting a drone video from Three Fingers. This person I follow tried to reach out to Jake and explain how drones are illegal to fly at the lookout
Good. This is the only thing you can do. Reporting to the FAA, NPS, USFS, ect. won't accomplish anything. The problem of drones in the wilderness is similar to the problem of snow mobiles in the wilderness. No amount of reporting or policing will ever stop it. If people want to break the law, they can, and they will get away with it. The best solution is shaming the person who violates the law and explaining to them WHY the law is the way it is (in as a polite way as you can). There will always be scofflaws but like snowmobiles in wilderness, most snowmobilers understand WHY we don't allow snowmobiles in the wilderness and accept that. Hopefully the same will soon be true for most drone pilots.

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philfort
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PostTue Oct 04, 2022 10:51 am 
jaysway wrote:
I'm not sure where this one was shot, if anyone knows could they comment on whether this is wilderness or not - https://www.instagram.com/reel/Ch-p_hBg23g/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link.
That's Del Campo peak I think (although you wouldn't know it from how stretched the video is). You can see Sperry and Vesper in the background. It's one of the few alpine areas where it's legal to fly drones... but he should go to prison just for stretching the video.

Chief Joseph, jaysway
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Gwen
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PostTue Oct 04, 2022 11:02 am 
altasnob wrote:
Reporting to the FAA, NPS, USFS, ect. won't accomplish anything.
While this is most likely correct, the agency can't do ANYTHING without a report. I say go ahead and report the activity, enough reports and it just might amount to something. I do get it that these folks don't give a rat's ass about the law, nor do they care about the resource, but the one thing that these video graphed have going against them is that they're all posting their illegal activity on public platforms for the whole world to see. That equals proof (something likely missing re illegal snowmobiles). If a particular individual posts enough pieces of proof, maybe, just maybe, the agency can fine him to kingdom come. THEN, after reporting to the agency, do all the public shaming you can muster. Don't forget to use the "Authority of the Resource" approach (as opposed to Authority of the Agency - if you're unfamiliar, look it up - basically, instead of "because it's the law" is explains WHY the law exists). As the years go on, I have less and less hope that we can gave a meaningful impact or cretins, and yet, I see a lit more dogs on leash these days, so maybe I'm wrong.

Tomorrow's not promised to anyone, so be bold, scare yourself, attempt something with no guarantee of success. You'll be amazed at what you can achieve. -Olive McGloin

Chief Joseph
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Waterman
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PostTue Oct 04, 2022 11:40 am 
Zimmertr mentioned a signal jammer. Perhaps this is an answer to the drone issue. Pull it out disrupt the signal, drone returns to base. My understanding about drones is they return to launch site if a issue arises. Repeat as needed. Pretty sure I’m missing something as someone is sure to point out. Without a doubt there would be unintended consequences such as a interfering with search and rescue, or a legitimate application. Until it becomes inconvenient for drone operators nothing will stop the recreational activity.

Two roads diverged in a wood, and I,I took the one less traveled by. And that has made all the difference. Robert Frost
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Randito
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PostTue Oct 04, 2022 1:07 pm 
Signal jammers with range sufficient to disable drones farther than a football field length away cost several kilobucks and weigh several pounds. They are also illegal for use by individuals in the US, though enforcement is as limited as is enforcement of drone flying rules. Expectations of drone flight rules enforcement by land agencies for anything other than protecting public safety around airports or events with thousands of people is unrealistic IMHO.

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zimmertr
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PostTue Oct 04, 2022 1:18 pm 
To be clear Neeeeeek mentioned using jammers. I simply postulated on their illegality.

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SpookyKite89
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jaysway
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jaysway
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PostTue Oct 04, 2022 2:49 pm 
This obviously doesn't encompass all cases, but the most problematic illegal drone usage is by people like Drew Simms and Jake Guzman who are influencers with hundreds of thousands of followers. Their videos generate millions of views and implicitly encourage others to follow in their footsteps. If influencers didn't generate big engagement with these types of videos they wouldn't do them. The best case would be if these people's followers knew enough about wilderness conduct to hold them accountable. Sadly, I doubt that's going to happen anytime soon - when Mason Strehl, the person I follow who was calling Jake Guzman out, Guzman's followers were trashing Mason in the comments and making excuses for why drones in the wilderness are fine. I wouldn't be surprised if Guzman blocked Strehl but that's just speculation. Perhaps a quicker way to get action here would be to contact the sponsors of these influencers and tell these companies that you don't appreciate this person using their drone illegally and disturbing the goats, bear, birds and other animals that drones bother. These influencers make money by doing sponsored posts. Guzman has done sponsored work for DJI. Drew Simms has done sponsored work for Jeep and Backcountry. If enough people complained I doubt these brands would want to work with these influencers.

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Waterman
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PostTue Oct 04, 2022 3:08 pm 
Another dream, reduced to ashes.

Two roads diverged in a wood, and I,I took the one less traveled by. And that has made all the difference. Robert Frost
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jcocci
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PostTue Oct 04, 2022 3:56 pm 
As a responsible drone owner/operator seeing this sh## pisses me off. Not that is matters but I am curious as to how many of these folks don't know they are supposed to flying their drone in a wilderness area / national park or just don't care. Too many dumb drone owners out there. Drones aren't the issue its the people who operate them. Just like everything else if life some people just don't care about anything but themselves. And yes you can report this to the FFA and a good chance they will do something about it. Especially with it posted online. Its happened to lots of people.

Chief Joseph
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Bramble_Scramble
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PostTue Oct 04, 2022 9:55 pm 
Saw some idiots flying a drone at Robin Lakes about a month ago. Wasn't too surprised given the type of crowd that area attracts. I got the same view by hiking south up the ridge between the two lakes...

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Chief Joseph
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Chief Joseph
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PostWed Oct 05, 2022 12:18 am 
Waterman wrote:
Zimmertr mentioned a signal jammer. Perhaps this is an answer to the drone issue.
I was at a Loggers Day celebration a few years ago and a drone flew overhead during the ax throwing competition...the guy running the event made a bluff throw up at the drone with his ax, too bad he didn't follow through. cool.gif

Go placidly amid the noise and waste, and remember what comfort there may be in owning a piece thereof.

SpookyKite89
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Lazyhiker
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PostWed Oct 05, 2022 7:22 am 
jcocci wrote:
As a responsible drone owner/operator seeing this sh## pisses me off. Not that is matters but I am curious as to how many of these folks don't know they are supposed to flying their drone in a wilderness area / national park or just don't care. Too many dumb drone owners out there. Drones aren't the issue its the people who operate them. Just like everything else if life some people just don't care about anything but themselves. And yes you can report this to the FFA and a good chance they will do something about it. Especially with it posted online. Its happened to lots of people.
I’ve seen no drone zone signs at every trailhead that accesses Wilderness that I remember, so ignorance wouldn’t be an excuse

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