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Kim Brown
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Joined: 13 Jul 2009
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| Anne Elk wrote: | | But I think I'm confusing Sauk Mt. with some other day hike I read about that sounds similar - crappy road conditions to the TH, not long, but somewhat scary "exposure" toward the top. Maybe that was something up the Mt. Loop I read about. |
Gee Point & Circle Peak fit that description; and Sauk too, actually, though the entire trail is exposed. Spectacular views and flower show; but I don't like the trail at.all.
"..living on the east side of the Sierra world be ideal - except for harsher winters and the chance of apocalyptic fires burning the whole area."
Bosterson, NWHiker's marketing expert
 Mountainpines
"..living on the east side of the Sierra world be ideal - except for harsher winters and the chance of apocalyptic fires burning the whole area."
Bosterson, NWHiker's marketing expert
Mountainpines
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Kim Brown
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Joined: 13 Jul 2009
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| altasnob wrote: | | Schroder wrote: | | I'm surprised it was King County doing this. It's normally Whidbey NAS in this area. |
King County is apparently so flush with cash they can pay to rescue people outside their jurisdiction. |
Money doesn't matter when it comes to rescue. They all work together to rescue people. I've seen USFS staff, WTA volunteers, King Co SAR, Snohomish Co SAR, Olympic Rescue, and the military, all work together on one rescue for one kid on Miner's Ridge. It doesn't matter; everyone has each other's backs to rescue a person.
"..living on the east side of the Sierra world be ideal - except for harsher winters and the chance of apocalyptic fires burning the whole area."
Bosterson, NWHiker's marketing expert
seawallrunner, car68, ChinookPass, RichP, Mountainpines
"..living on the east side of the Sierra world be ideal - except for harsher winters and the chance of apocalyptic fires burning the whole area."
Bosterson, NWHiker's marketing expert
seawallrunner, car68, ChinookPass, RichP, Mountainpines
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altasnob
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Joined: 29 Aug 2007
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Location: Tacoma |
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altasnob
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 Mon Aug 08, 2022 12:03 pm |
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| Kim Brown wrote: | | Money doesn't matter when it comes to rescue. |
I get that everyone teams up to get the job done, but the sheriff's search and rescue units don't work for free, do they? Just find it interesting that King County is willing to use their tax dollars out of their jurisdiction without reciprocity for their tax payers (just another way the rest of the state mooches off the wealthy part of the state). Or maybe King County will send Skagit County a bill for the rescue?
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Anne Elk
BrontosaurusTheorist
Joined: 07 Sep 2018
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Anne Elk
BrontosaurusTheorist
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Mon Aug 08, 2022 10:13 pm |
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| Kim Brown wrote: | | Anne Elk wrote: | | But I think I'm confusing Sauk Mt. with some other day hike I read about that sounds similar - crappy road conditions to the TH, not long, but somewhat scary "exposure" toward the top. Maybe that was something up the Mt. Loop I read about. |
Gee Point & Circle Peak fit that description; and Sauk too, actually, though the entire trail is exposed. Spectacular views and flower show; but I don't like the trail at.all. |
If memory serves I think it was a hike that Neek was on but he didn't do the TR...none of his in the last 2 years rings a bell. I'll have to check with him.
"There are yahoos out there. It’s why we can’t have nice things." - Tom Mahood
"There are yahoos out there. It’s why we can’t have nice things." - Tom Mahood
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Kim Brown
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| altasnob wrote: | | Or maybe King County will send Skagit County a bill for the rescue? |
Maybe they do. But what if the person is a resident of King County?
I don't think the majority of us care about the rescue bill; a passing curiosity, maybe, but not really a concern.
"..living on the east side of the Sierra world be ideal - except for harsher winters and the chance of apocalyptic fires burning the whole area."
Bosterson, NWHiker's marketing expert
Cyclopath
"..living on the east side of the Sierra world be ideal - except for harsher winters and the chance of apocalyptic fires burning the whole area."
Bosterson, NWHiker's marketing expert
Cyclopath
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car68
Out on the skids
Joined: 04 May 2007
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car68
Out on the skids
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Tue Aug 09, 2022 8:40 am |
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SAR is mutual aid. As Kim mentioned they all work together. King County's aircraft are considered regional assets. The helicopter used in this rescue was acquired for free through the surplus donation program. It was totally overhauled with federal grant funds with the expectation that it be used as a regional asset. Fire departments work the same way. They back each other up.
I'm the guy 911 calls.
Kim Brown, zimmertr, CS, SpookyKite89
I'm the guy 911 calls.
Kim Brown, zimmertr, CS, SpookyKite89
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Cyclopath
Faster than light
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Cyclopath
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Tue Aug 09, 2022 9:20 am |
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I'm glad all the SAR agencies work together like this, we should all be. It means there's no such thing as the county without the helicopter and nobody should feel comfortable hiking there.
zimmertr, CS
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altasnob
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Location: Tacoma |
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altasnob
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Tue Aug 09, 2022 9:36 am |
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| Kim Brown wrote: | | I don't think the majority of us care about the rescue bill |
I guess it comes down to your opinion of the entire purpose of SAR. I assume the vast majority of SAR operations are to rescue people who were well prepared, well researched, and just had some bad luck. But another chunk are for people who are horribly unprepared, have no clue where they are going, and love the idea of having a free heli lift from wherever they want courtesy of the taxpayers. And knowing this, and knowing that wealthy counties like King County have their back, incentivizes them to continue to venture into the mountains unprepared (which in turn, drives up the total SAR budget).
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Cyclopath
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Joined: 20 Mar 2012
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Cyclopath
Faster than light
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Tue Aug 09, 2022 9:41 am |
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| altasnob wrote: | | I guess it comes down to you opinion of the entire purpose of SAR. I assume the vast majority of SAR operations are to rescue people who were well prepared, well researched, and just got some bad luck. But another chunk are for people who are horibly unprepared, have no clue where they are going, and love the idea of having a free heli lift from wherever they want courtesy of the taxpayers. And knowing this, and knowing that wealthy counties like King County have their back, incentivizes them to continue to venture into the mountains unprepared (which in turn, drives up the total SAR budget). |
The purpose of search and rescue is to search and rescue.
It's to help people. Not to help "the right kind of people" or "the riff raff from poor counties." To help people who need help.
Nobody is going to break their leg just to spite King County out of a free helicopter ride. 
CS
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HikingBex
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| altasnob wrote: | | But another chunk are for people who are horibly unprepared, have no clue where they are going, and love the idea of having a free heli lift from wherever they want courtesy of the taxpayers. And knowing this, and knowing that wealthy counties like King County have their back, incentivizes them to continue to venture into the mountains unprepared (which in turn, drives up the total SAR budget). |
I think this vastly overestimates the amount of thought your average unprepared hiker puts into their plan for the day. I would guess we've all heard of very publicized cases that do fit this description (man who wants a ride from the top of Whitney, climber who lied about condition on Denali) but most unprepared hikers who need rescue just don't have the knowledge or forethought to even realize they might need rescue.
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altasnob
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altasnob
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Tue Aug 09, 2022 9:51 am |
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| HikingBex wrote: | | I think most unprepared hikers who need rescue just don't have the knowledge or forethought to even realize they might need rescue. |
So how do we address this problem? Because as population in Western WA increases, there are going to be even more clueless hikers out there in need of rescue. Which means we need to divert even more money away from other purposes (education, housing, ect) to fund the massive SAR entities responsible for plucking these clueless hikers out of the wilderness.
It appears that today, even a greater percentage of hikers go into the wilds unprepared than previously. Some are truly oblivious. And some are well aware of the risk and chose to disregard those risks knowing there is always a heli there (think ultra-runners, backcountry skiers, ect). You get cell service almost everywhere in the high country so now you have the ability to call in that heli when before, you had no choice but to figure things out yourself.
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CS
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Joined: 04 Apr 2022
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CS
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Tue Aug 09, 2022 10:18 am |
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Kim Brown
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Joined: 13 Jul 2009
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| altasnob wrote: | | I guess it comes down to your opinion of the entire purpose of SAR |
To rescue. Is there another purpose you may be thinking of?
And - pets are also rescued; horses who tip into a ditch and can't right themselves....
old grandpa's who get lost while walking to the grocery store...kids who clamber out onto the rock in a river and can't get back to shore...or recover a child who didn't make it back to shore.
Perhaps there's a giant database somewhere to categorize the various tours, and perhaps there is a bill that goes back and forth between the agencies. It's something to occupy your time and mind.
"..living on the east side of the Sierra world be ideal - except for harsher winters and the chance of apocalyptic fires burning the whole area."
Bosterson, NWHiker's marketing expert
"..living on the east side of the Sierra world be ideal - except for harsher winters and the chance of apocalyptic fires burning the whole area."
Bosterson, NWHiker's marketing expert
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Bosterson
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Joined: 12 Sep 2019
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| car68 wrote: | | federal grant funds |
I'm going to hijack this topic for a quick sec to ask the SAR experts: Mt Hood is proposing a climbing permit to go into effect in 2023. One of the ostensible justifications (in addition to climbers being exposed to more "education" if they have to buy a permit on rec.gov, excuse me while I die laughing) is that the permits will generate funds for SAR on the mountain. Since my understanding was that SAR groups are private (not government) entities and SAR is "run" by the county, how much funding does SAR (generally) get from the USFS and would a permit system actually be able to directly increase funding to SAR groups?
Go! Take a gun! And a dog! Without a leash! Chop down a tree! Start a fire! Piss wherever you want! Build a cairn! A HUGE ONE!
BE A REBEL! YOU ONLY LIVE ONCE!
(-bootpathguy)
Go! Take a gun! And a dog! Without a leash! Chop down a tree! Start a fire! Piss wherever you want! Build a cairn! A HUGE ONE!
BE A REBEL! YOU ONLY LIVE ONCE!
(-bootpathguy)
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Cyclopath
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Cyclopath
Faster than light
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Tue Aug 09, 2022 10:37 am |
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| altasnob wrote: | | It appears that today, even a greater percentage of hikers go into the wilds unprepared than previously. Some are truly oblivious. |
Citation please? When you're done yelling at kids to get off your lawn.
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