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Joseph
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Joseph
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PostSun Nov 27, 2022 2:18 pm 
RumiDude wrote:
For those afraid of the griz there will still be plenty of places to hike and backpack where that will not be a concern.
But I want to back pack in the north cascades. So do others.

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Randito
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PostSun Nov 27, 2022 2:56 pm 
Joseph wrote:
RumiDude wrote:
For those afraid of the griz there will still be plenty of places to hike and backpack where that will not be a concern.
But I want to back pack in the north cascades. So do others.
You are far more likely to die or be injured driving to /from the trailhead.

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timberghost
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PostSun Nov 27, 2022 3:16 pm 
More likely maybe but why increase your odds of injury when it's not needed. I have hiked in the Canadian Rockies too and there were areas closed due to grizzly activity. There was also areas where you were required to have a 4 plus person party size to hike. Not that would or could happen in the NCNP.

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RumiDude
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PostSun Nov 27, 2022 4:33 pm 
timberghost wrote:
More likely maybe but why increase your odds of injury when it's not needed.
If you don't like your odds, then go someplace where there are no griz. My understanding is that there will still be plenty of areas even within NCNP which will not be affected by the proposed reintroduction. Even if everything goes well, it will take many years for the goals of reintroduction to be reached. Rumi

"This is my Indian summer ... I'm far more dangerous now, because I don't care at all."
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Ski
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PostSun Nov 27, 2022 4:38 pm 
@altasnob - As I said, It's been quite a while since I was over there on that Crowell Ridge Trail. I got in and out that day right before they locked the gates. It was at that time a temporary seasonal closure - I'm not sure what the duration of the closure was or how much area it involved. Their management policies may or may not have changed over the course of 17 years. I was hoping to maybe spot a caribou or two over there, but no such luck - their numbers are apparently dwindling. I believe the issue is that they're isolated from their cousins to the north, which is what both Anne Elk and I are convinced is going to happen with grizzly bears in NCNP - and that's not going to do the bears one bit of good. It certainly isn't working well for the native caribou in the Selkirks.
Ski, on August 13, 2005 wrote:
yes, the road up to the crowel ridge trailhead is closed after august 15th for the bears.

"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach. I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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Joseph
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Joseph
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PostSun Nov 27, 2022 8:04 pm 
RumiDude wrote:
If you don't like your odds, then go someplace where there are no griz.
Or, oppose the artificial introduction of griz into the area where you want to hike.

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Joseph
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PostSun Nov 27, 2022 8:05 pm 
Randito wrote:
You are far more likely to die or be injured driving to /from the trailhead.
Maybe. But hardly an argument for artificially introducing more hazards/danger into the area once you survive the trip to the TH.

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timberghost
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PostSun Nov 27, 2022 8:20 pm 
up.gif up.gif

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Chief Joseph
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PostSun Nov 27, 2022 8:27 pm 
Ski wrote:
@altasnob - As I said, It's been quite a while since I was over there on that Crowell Ridge Trail. I got in and out that day right before they locked the gates. It was at that time a temporary seasonal closure - I'm not sure what the duration of the closure was or how much area it involved. Their management policies may or may not have changed over the course of 17 years. I was hoping to maybe spot a caribou or two over there, but no such luck - their numbers are apparently dwindling. I believe the issue is that they're isolated from their cousins to the north, which is what both Anne Elk and I are convinced is going to happen with grizzly bears in NCNP - and that's not going to do the bears one bit of good. It certainly isn't working well for the native caribou in the Selkirks.
Ski, on August 13, 2005 wrote:
yes, the road up to the crowel ridge trailhead is closed after august 15th for the bears.
About 4 years ago they closed a popular snowmobile trail about 10 miles north of Priest Lake (Gold Peak Trail) in order to protect caribou habitat, even though all the other trails are still open, including those to the north of that trail between there and Canada. To me that makes no sense at all and I doubt any caribou actually use that trail. I have never seen one anywhere around PL. They also close come old logging roads (snowmobile trails) in summer in order to protect grizzly habitat. Not sure if that makes sense either since the trails are in close proximity to a populated area, although sparse. One that they close is about 1/8 mile from my place, and is only closed to motorized travel. I suppose it is a way to appease environmental groups to show that they are "doing something"....even if it's not really effective.

Go placidly amid the noise and waste, and remember what comfort there may be in owning a piece thereof.
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Waterman
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PostSun Nov 27, 2022 8:37 pm 
Situational awareness. If your going to go into the outdoors and not paying attention you could come to a bad end. Kayaking, backpacking, mountain biking and every variation of outdoor fun can end in your early demise. Pay attention. I have hiked all over the Alaska peninsula where the brown bears are frigging huge. Never carried a weapon other than bearspray. In the cascades I have surprised more black bears than I can count because I wasn't paying enough attention. Wildlife is the added spice that makes a trip. Closest I came to buying the farm occurred when I step on pea gravel on a huge drop off. Its the objective dangers that going to hurt you. Wild life encounters should be the least of your worries. Like Albert I believe there is a small population in the NCNP, and I support a reintroduction of a viable population. Wilderness is not for our benefit but a attempt to persevere a ecosystem for future generations and a genetic bank for wildlife species. If you feel threatened by wildlife go else where

Two roads diverged in a wood, and I,I took the one less traveled by. And that has made all the difference. Robert Frost

ChinookPass, Secret Agent Man, RumiDude, Chief Joseph
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Joseph
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Joseph
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PostSun Nov 27, 2022 9:28 pm 
Waterman wrote:
Like Albert I believe there is a small population in the NCNP, and I support a reintroduction of a viable population.
Why?

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Waterman
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PostSun Nov 27, 2022 10:00 pm 
Why? Why not allow other species the chance they deserve to prosper? Why do we as a apex predator think we have the right to determine if other species have a right to exist? Your lack of empathy towards the animal kingdom is disturbing. They have every right to exist as humans do. This arrogance of mankind towards other lifeforms is uninformed and detrimental to to the continued coexistence all. If you can't face a unknown encounter with wildlife with a modicum of confidence in your ability to handle said encounter prehaps you should stick to walking in the arboretum? Just my opinion.

Two roads diverged in a wood, and I,I took the one less traveled by. And that has made all the difference. Robert Frost

vibramhead, Chief Joseph, dave allyn, Logbear, Secret Agent Man
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timberghost
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PostMon Nov 28, 2022 4:49 am 
Let the existence happen naturally not by an over priced reintroduction.

Mountainfisherman
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Snowshovel
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PostMon Nov 28, 2022 9:50 am 
Over on the camo and ammo site the word is that people had grizzly photos in the Alpine Lakes back in 1996. The USFS told the photographer to keep the photos secret. On the same site, there was a claim that a dark government semi dropped 100 breeding pair of grizzly off the Mount Baker Highway.

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Randito
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PostMon Nov 28, 2022 10:04 am 
Joseph wrote:
Randito wrote:
You are far more likely to die or be injured driving to /from the trailhead.
Maybe. But hardly an argument for artificially introducing more hazards/danger into the area once you survive the trip to the TH.
Just as adding a miniscule additional risk to an activity that already carries considerable risk is not a rational argument against something. Far more SAR activity occurs in AK, BC and MT due to ordinary self imposed risks such as tripping and falling, getting lost , hypothermia, etc than due to Griz. The risk isn't zero but you more likely to be struck by lightning than attacked by any bear, black or griz. Hyper irrational fear of bears isn't a scientific argument against any wildlife management decision.

Secret Agent Man
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