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Mountainpines
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Joined: 18 May 2021
Posts: 303 | TRs | Pics
Location: Illinois |
| altasnob wrote: | | I hike probably 10 hikes a summer at MRNP, a lot of those on weekends in July and August and don't have any problems with crowds. I go early (get to the gates before 7) or just go places like Carbon River that doesn't have a gate.
If they implement this timed entry proposal I assume, just like camping, all the spots will be immediately booked up. Then half the people will no show. It appears the timed entry reservation would start at 7 am, so you can always get around that by going early. But it will really suck if you are heading to the Westside Road on a Tuesday in July and get to the gate at 7:15 am and told you have to turn around becuase all reservations spots are full (even though the gate would be empty at that time and day and there would be like 4 other people at the Westside Road then).
Just another example of humans thinking they can "solve" things with technology when really they just make things worse. |
Right! I visited for last two consecutive years in high season and NEVER had any problem with parking anywhere or getting to the park. I did say it’s luck. But I don’t think this park needs it what they are calling for, not yet….
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Mountainpines
Member
Joined: 18 May 2021
Posts: 303 | TRs | Pics
Location: Illinois |
no| kiliki wrote: | | altasnob wrote: | | Everyone throws out far fetched unrealistic ideas like trams, shuttles, and expanded parking lots. None of these will happen anytime soon, if ever. All the land 10 feet away from the roads is wilderness so that eliminates trams and big parking lots. Shuttles work in theory but you have to purchase land outside the park and then the shuttle themselves would be traveling very far, much farther than in other national parks.
I have no faith MRNP can pull off an effective shuttle system. What I fear is that they impose a mandatory ineffective shuttle system, and it will prevent people like me from showing up at 6:45 am, cruising through the gate with no wait, and hiking on a less used trail in solitude. Instead, you will have to wait 30+ minutes on each end of the hike for the shuttle. And then they will cancel shuttle runs for labor shortage issues just like they did for winter access. So imposing a shuttle means cutting off access to the park.
The status quo is not bad at all. It is bad if you think you should be able roll up at 11 am on a beautiful sunny August day and you should be allowed to drive right up to Paradise and park. But if you adjust your expectations and strategies, it is an amazing park where you can find solitude any day of the year. But people just love to complain. |
Well first, if you enter the park at 6:45 you might be through the gate before timed entry starts. So it seems like that would be a good comment to submit. Start it at 7. That's when Arches timed entry starts. Glacier's starts at 6. Rocky Mts starts at 9 except for one particular corridor.
They've done shuttles before, so I'm not sure why it would be far fetched.
https://www.nps.gov/mora/learn/news/shuttle-service-begins-june-29.htm
But sure there will be some people that will find that the timed entry isn't as convenient for them as free access. The status quo for you might not be bad, but the tipping point was when residents and tourists in Ashford could no longer access their homes/lodging without getting stuck in the backed up entrance line. The line has been 2 hours long at times--think of all those idling cars. It's not just that you can't roll up at 11--you can't roll up between 9 and 4. And visitation keeps growing. With our population growth plus growth in tourism, something needs to be done.
It's normal I guess that we are thinking of this from a hikers perspective (you can always find solitude, etc) but that's not the issue the park is trying to solve. They are trying to solve 1-2 hour long lines that extend into Ashford, and a crush of tourists wanting parking when there is none.
Timed entry has been very successful at other parks. It's the only way I'd ever visit popular parks like Arches or Glacier again. And again, note that you can enter these parks early without using the system. |
But you are not thinking as a regular visitor to the park. You hardly even visit during peak times and be at the areas where visitors are.
And I am that visitor. I experienced it two times for last two years during peak times, and it’s not needed yet!!
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Mountainpines
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Joined: 18 May 2021
Posts: 303 | TRs | Pics
Location: Illinois |
And people who vote for shuttles don’t realize people will get off at the same stops from the bus creating crowding in those places. With a car you tend to wonder especially as new visitors. So, the crowd is more spread out. It’s when you pack people like sardines you will end up having crowding issues in those spots and then have other places that won’t even get visited in the same park!
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Randito
Snarky Member
Joined: 27 Jul 2008
Posts: 9513 | TRs | Pics
Location: Bellevue at the moment. |
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Randito
Snarky Member
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 Thu Jun 15, 2023 9:35 am |
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I like the plan with timed entry reservations and additional shuttle bus service.
Paradise and Sunrise do get slammed on peak summer weekends and it's a management headache to to have hour+ backups at the gate and potential for road rage incidents from frustrated would be visitors.
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Kim Brown
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Joined: 13 Jul 2009
Posts: 6900 | TRs | Pics
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Here is Yosemite's public process plan and discussion. My guess is that NPS with overcrowding issues all across the board will adopt timed entry.
"..living on the east side of the Sierra world be ideal - except for harsher winters and the chance of apocalyptic fires burning the whole area."
Bosterson, NWHiker's marketing expert
"..living on the east side of the Sierra world be ideal - except for harsher winters and the chance of apocalyptic fires burning the whole area."
Bosterson, NWHiker's marketing expert
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Mountainpines
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Joined: 18 May 2021
Posts: 303 | TRs | Pics
Location: Illinois |
TripAdvisor for WA isn’t as friendly as other forums for other states. WA locals are known to be gate keepers for themselves. No other state I visited was so hesitant to share info about hikes.
Trying to keep visitors to a few known hikes creates congestion in those places.
And now with the road being closed connecting Paradise to Sunrise it’s harder to plan for common visitors. Often, pressed on time they might choose Paradise or Sunrise.
I spent a couple of days in Rainier each year for last two years, and for me as a hiker it wasn’t enough. But since Rainier is easier for visitors since scenery is pretty much everywhere without even putting an effort to hike, it will be drawing crowds…
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zimmertr
TJ Zimmerman
Joined: 24 Jun 2018
Posts: 1228 | TRs | Pics
Location: Issaquah |
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zimmertr
TJ Zimmerman
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Thu Jun 15, 2023 9:53 am |
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We have an entire organization and website built around maintaining and promoting our trails? Oftentimes the "secrets" are either places that require experience to safely visit or are sub par when compared to the popular highlights and used by locals. Don't base your perception of Washington from a few nwhikers curmudgeons...
Also as respectful as I'm sure that you are, these changes are being made because there are hundreds of thousands of other respectful road trippers visiting the park too lol. You're part of the problem. Just like I am. And everyone else.
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Mountainpines
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Joined: 18 May 2021
Posts: 303 | TRs | Pics
Location: Illinois |
| zimmertr wrote: | | I think it should be free for everyone. Even non-citizens. |
I was thinking the same but theft is high. And for that reason now I am for paid entrances.
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zimmertr
TJ Zimmerman
Joined: 24 Jun 2018
Posts: 1228 | TRs | Pics
Location: Issaquah |
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zimmertr
TJ Zimmerman
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Thu Jun 15, 2023 9:58 am |
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Mate I know exactly two people who have had their car broken in to lol. One left their purse on the driver's seat. I've visited at least 150 different trailheads and have never had a break in.
Don't fear the Boogeyman. Theft may be high relative to other places (doubt) but it's definitely not a common occurrence.
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Cyclopath
Faster than light
Joined: 20 Mar 2012
Posts: 7752 | TRs | Pics
Location: Seattle |
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Cyclopath
Faster than light
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Thu Jun 15, 2023 10:01 am |
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| Mountainpines wrote: | | WA locals are known to be gate keepers for themselves. |
Half of the hikers here absolutely are.
 Mountainpines
Mountainpines |
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Mountainpines
Member
Joined: 18 May 2021
Posts: 303 | TRs | Pics
Location: Illinois |
That is why you need to become friends with locals. 
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Mountainpines
Member
Joined: 18 May 2021
Posts: 303 | TRs | Pics
Location: Illinois |
| zimmertr wrote: | | We have an entire organization and website built around maintaining and promoting our trails? Oftentimes the "secrets" are either places that require experience to safely visit or are sub par when compared to the popular highlights and used by locals. Don't base your perception of Washington from a few nwhikers curmudgeons...
Also as respectful as I'm sure that you are, these changes are being made because there are hundreds of thousands of other respectful road trippers visiting the park too lol. You're part of the problem. Just like I am. And everyone else. |
Yep, we are all part of the problem. But there are hikers from other states who will be coming back because they don’t find the info they are looking for. Or they discover things later on.
My third trip to WA is this year, not last. LOL
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altasnob
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Joined: 29 Aug 2007
Posts: 1415 | TRs | Pics
Location: Tacoma |
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altasnob
Member
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Thu Jun 15, 2023 10:27 am |
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Cyclopath, Mountainpines  zimmertr |
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zimmertr
TJ Zimmerman
Joined: 24 Jun 2018
Posts: 1228 | TRs | Pics
Location: Issaquah |
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zimmertr
TJ Zimmerman
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Thu Jun 15, 2023 10:34 am |
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| altasnob wrote: | | Mountainpines wrote: | | That is why you need to become friends with locals. |
You don't need to be friends with locals. Just consult the strava heat map. No secrets anymore, it's all out in the open for the world to see. |
Wait until AllTrails or something starts training an AI model on data like this and automatically constructing new trail pages complete with route descriptions
https://sectionhiker.com/alltrails-announces-trailgpt-a-trail-curation-ai/
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Cyclopath
Faster than light
Joined: 20 Mar 2012
Posts: 7752 | TRs | Pics
Location: Seattle |
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Cyclopath
Faster than light
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Thu Jun 15, 2023 1:09 pm |
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| altasnob wrote: | | Mountainpines wrote: | | That is why you need to become friends with locals. |
You don't need to be friends with locals. Just consult the strava heat map. No secrets anymore, it's all out in the open for the world to see. |
This is progress. 
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