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breadcrumb
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Bramble_Scramble
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 thunderhead |
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breadcrumb
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I've been communicating with his office. Way to go Dunn!
thunderhead
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Malachai Constant
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Joined: 13 Jan 2002
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Location: Back Again Like A Bad Penny |
Just another grandstanding politician on a Sinclair TV station offering to do what is already done. Every trailhead I know of has signs saying “cameras” are present. Trailheads are not “filled with thieves”. That is nonsense intended to panic people. This has been discussed here to death. This guy is just trying to find a new way to panic people because recent events has blown up in his face.
"You do not laugh when you look at the mountains, or when you look at the sea." Lafcadio Hearn
Bramble_Scramble
"You do not laugh when you look at the mountains, or when you look at the sea." Lafcadio Hearn
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Randito
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Joined: 27 Jul 2008
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Location: Bellevue at the moment. |
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Randito
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 Tue Jul 05, 2022 9:28 pm |
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Reagan Dunn has a bit of a reputation for introducing "symbolic" legislation that generates media attention -- what I haven't seen him do is build support for legislation he has introduced amount his fellow lawmakers and actually get legislation passed.
Since I generally don't agree with his approach -- I'm OK with that.
Frankly I think the "volunteer patrols" idea is rather dangerous.
The recent incident at Mt Si where a hiker confronted car prowlers in the act and gave chase , resulting in gun fire, an assault and a car jacking illustrates what can happen.
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kiliki
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Joined: 07 Apr 2003
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kiliki
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Wed Jul 06, 2022 10:31 am |
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The part where Dunn says that he wants volunteer patrols made me laugh. So his solution is that regular people do the (potentially dangerous) job of security for free.
I'm guessing he did not run this by law enforcement first.
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breadcrumb
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Joined: 10 May 2022
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| Malachai Constant wrote: | | Just another grandstanding politician on a Sinclair TV station offering to do what is already done. Every trailhead I know of has signs saying “cameras” are present. Trailheads are not “filled with thieves”. That is nonsense intended to panic people. This has been discussed here to death. This guy is just trying to find a new way to panic people because recent events has blown up in his face. |
His proposed legislation is based on a proposal I drafted and sent to him about 6 weeks ago, so I don't think it's fair or accurate to label this as "grandstanding." The problem with trailheads that have signs saying cameras are present is that they are usually false: there are no cameras present. That is certainly the case with respect to the trailheads in the Issaquah Alps. Frankly, I wish the video surveillance signs were removed unless and until there are cameras installed and working.
The motivation for the proposal was the crime wave across the Issaquah Alps. Look at the data: https://datastudio.google.com/s/g5ya058NI5Y
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breadcrumb
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| Randito wrote: | | Frankly I think the "volunteer patrols" idea is rather dangerous.
The recent incident at Mt Si where a hiker confronted car prowlers in the act and gave chase , resulting in gun fire, an assault and a car jacking illustrates what can happen. |
The proposal I sent Dunn was for volunteer lookouts to passively monitor the parking lots, NOT to intervene like the Mt Si hiker did.
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breadcrumb
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| kiliki wrote: | | The part where Dunn says that he wants volunteer patrols made me laugh. So his solution is that regular people do the (potentially dangerous) job of security for free.
I'm guessing he did not run this by law enforcement first. |
1. His proposal is based on a document I sent him about 6 weeks ago, which I wrote after talking to a KCSO's deputy. After I wrote it, I shared it with a second deputy who was also supportive of having more eyes.
2. The rationale for volunteers to do this is simple: in the grand scheme of things, the police have limited deputies and we can't expect them to sit in parking lots at trailheads all day. Or, to put it another way, I would be surprised if the majority of voters were willing to use tax dollars to do that, as opposed to patrolling parking lots or fighting other types of crime.
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altasnob
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Joined: 29 Aug 2007
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altasnob
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Wed Jul 06, 2022 12:10 pm |
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Dunn's proposal only applies to trailheads owned by King County. It wouldn't apply to DNR or National Forest lands.
Here's the exact language of the proposal:
| Quote: | | A. The council requests that the executive develop an implementation plan to establish a trailhead safety program to combat vehicle break-ins at King County trailheads, especially during peak-use times of year. The implementation plan should identify the trailheads most affected by car prowl activity and, for those areas, include, but not be limited to, the following:
1. Identification of locations to place:
a. security cameras; and
b. clear, visible signage warning trail users of the high car-prowl area, providing information on whom to contact to report a crime, and stating that violators will be prosecuted;
2. A plan for establishing a volunteer-based community watch program to monitor trailhead parking lots. Through the program, volunteers would do the following and report out to the department of natural resources and parks and King County sheriff's office:
a. conduct parking counts at regular intervals at the trailheads, including collecting data on length of stay; and
b. monitor the trailhead parking lots for suspicious or criminal activity and record a written description or audio or video evidence of the activity;
3. A plan to expand the trailhead direct program to the car-prowl prone areas; and
4. An analysis of the cost to implement the trailhead safety program and expand trailhead direct access, as identified in the plan, and identification of funding sources for these costs.
B. The implementation plan should be developed with the intention that the trailhead safety program be fully operational as soon as possible after transmittal of the plan to the council.
C. The executive should electronically file the implementation plan no later than January 9, 2023, with the clerk of the council, who shall retain an electronic copy and provide an electronic copy to all councilmembers, the council chief of staff and the lead staff for the transportation, economy and environment committee, or its successor. |
breadcrumb
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breadcrumb
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I hadn't read his proposal yet, so thanks for posting it, altasnob. I think it makes sense that it only applies to trailheads owned by King County. The County probably doesn't even have the authority to dictate what happens on land owned by other land managers (such as DNR and the USFS).
I've been in touch with DNR on this topic, as well. They are very supportive and interested in our work.
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Randito
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Location: Bellevue at the moment. |
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Randito
Snarky Member
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Wed Jul 06, 2022 1:50 pm |
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| breadcrumb wrote: | | Randito wrote: | | Frankly I think the "volunteer patrols" idea is rather dangerous.
The recent incident at Mt Si where a hiker confronted car prowlers in the act and gave chase , resulting in gun fire, an assault and a car jacking illustrates what can happen. |
The proposal I sent Dunn was for volunteer lookouts to passively monitor the parking lots, NOT to intervene like the Mt Si hiker did. |
Right and exactly how much screening and training are the volunteers going to receive before getting assignments? What if the volunteers are people that are looking for an opportunity to "kick some bad guy's ass"
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Chief Joseph
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Joined: 10 Nov 2007
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Location: Verlot-Priest Lake |
Could be dangerous for volunteers, true. But it seems that most TH thieves would simply move on if there are people hanging around in plain sight. Maybe set up a lemonaide stand or something?
It's like they train you to initiate contact with customers while working retail, thieves don't like to be noticed.
Go placidly amid the noise and waste, and remember what comfort there may be in owning a piece thereof.
breadcrumb
Go placidly amid the noise and waste, and remember what comfort there may be in owning a piece thereof.
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breadcrumb
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I've managed to get the attention of a Washington State Senator regarding trailhead crime and the possible connection to the bill known as HB 1054. This particular Senator voted in favor of HB 1054, so in my opinion they deserve credit for being open-minded and willing to hear us out.
HB 1054 is the bill which changed the police's rules of engagement for vehicular pursuits (car chases) of suspects. So that we are all working with the same set of facts, the part of the law relevant to this group is RCW 10.116.060, which is pretty short and can be read here:
https://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=10.116.060
I have heard from many people who believe that HB 1054 is partially or mostly responsible for the huge surge in property crime in general, including trailhead crime. I've written this post to gather data which I can use to communicate to the state senator.
For my part, I did some quick statistical analysis of the trailhead incident tracker vs. official police crime statistics. The screenshot below is what I came up with.
So... here's my ask of the group: what data can we point to, in order to justify a specific, constructive, and actionable request to an open-minded member of the legislature?
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zephyr
aka friendly hiker
Joined: 21 Jun 2009
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zephyr
aka friendly hiker
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Thu Jul 07, 2022 7:15 pm |
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Nice work, breadcrumb. I really appreciate your efforts and sincerity. ~z
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