[allison-]

so with an honest 25 pound load these packs don't feel like a plastic grocery sack being used as a pack? My load is usually around 20# to max 28# with climbing gear for anything up to a week. I am still using an Arc'DeadBird pack which gets to suck up 5# of that weight. I want to go lighter but also want super duper comfy...no riding up, no flimsy, preferbly more than a thin packsheet and no stays....????

[rubberlegs]

We went a little above that, slightly above 30 lbs. They were stuffed to the gills the first couple days of the 6-day trip. Course, we brought tents instead of tarps and some other extras... but they worked fine if packed tight. Also use a sleeping pad (most used thermarest style pads) against your back. I tried making a tube out of my sleeping pad, then putting all the gear inside that tube. It seemed to give the pack some rigidity. If not packed well, they collapse and weight goes on the shoulders. I prefer to put heaviest stuff (like food) at the bottom, lightest (like sleeping bag) on the top. These packs are not for everybody. My pack was 16 lbs the last day. Very comfy that day! By the way, all packs I tried were about the same comfort. All depended on how they were packed.

[johngemza]

Rubberlegs, How did the Virga feel with 30lbs? They recommend a limit of 20lbs. to remain painless.

[rubberlegs]

30 lbs is pushing it, but works ok if packed just right. I'm gonna use it this weekend and can comment more. Last time I used it, I think I had a little too much weight (crampons and boots in the pack) and it didn't hold shape to well. Packing technique is vital to keep it supported. Also, if you use a thermarest you might consider rolling it into a big tube with gear inside, and packing it full of Viagra. Keeps the Virga a lot more rigid and upright.

[allisonw-]

Hi gang, just checking in from Salt Lake at the Outdoor Retailer show. Haven't seen anything super groundbreaking yet, but what I can tell you is that there are some nice and innovative things being done with pack suspension that should continue to make them lighter and simpler. I'm going to see a lot more in the next two days, but one I've liked so far is Vaude, somewhat new to the US market, and doing some things a la Deuter. More to come. My feet hurt and I want to come home, but back to the bloodbath for me.

[marylouhoo]

OMG, I have been gone for three days and I can't remember about the whammy. Tom, feel free to change the above username to anything maryloulike you can think of.

[Allison]

Okay, so I'm home now, and this is the most important thing I saw vis a vis pack design: In daypacks, there are two trends, both seen a little bit before, and coming in force in the spring. One is what can be called a "trampoline" back suspension, it involves lightweight stays and a sort of "sprung" back with a mesh fabric under tension. It started in bike packs, I believe, and facilitates serious airflow across the back. The other thing is with the shoulder straps. The straps are all cut from one piece, joined in a curve behind the neck. It allows for a more even weight distribution across the upper back, and the resulting shape of the straps fits a woman's torso especially well. Some don't have sternum straps, and some don't have waist belts, but I found them all to be a big improvement over existing daypack strap configuations. Not sure why it isn't being applied to big packs yet.

[Newt]

My Marmot Talus has, er, had, a one piece shoulder a harness. If the pack rides even a little high or close to the back at the top, it can be a bugger on the neck. You may not be able to bend your head back to look up. Hope they put a seperate hand loop or bigger opening for lifting. Can/will pinch the fingers. I'm no pro, just my experience. I don't think I would consider another one regardless of mfg. NN

[Allison]

So your expereince with that type of strap was so heinous you'll never use one again? If that's the case, I want to know!

[Newt]

I ended up taking it to Rainy Pass for alterations back to a dual. If you consider this type, just make sure you load it up as heavy as normal. Lift it and then make adjustments up and down while on. Your fit may differ. Yup, now you know. NN

[Allison]

Well, it's my inclination to get one of the new packs with the new strap(s) for testing and then test it on a number of people to see if that is a consistent problem. It may be that the new iterations of this style work better, many things are better after a couple of iterations. As far as loading for testing, I'm pretty particular about testing things properly before making any judgements. That said, every one of these kinds of packs I tried on were way more comfortable than their traditional counterparts, including a head-to-head on the show floor between the MS Ghost (traditional) and one of MS's new packs (yoke). I was really impressed with the comfort on this anecdotal level. Thanks for your feedback.