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Pef
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Pef
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PostThu Nov 02, 2023 10:56 am 
Gore-Tex is a Marketing Gimmick As someone general disappointed by Gore-Tex products not living up to the marketing , this explains a lot.

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Randito
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PostThu Nov 02, 2023 6:19 pm 
Some of us old farts have know that since the '70s.

Snow_Knot, Ski, reststep, Chief Joseph
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RumiDude
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PostThu Nov 02, 2023 10:01 pm 
I get the whole thing about marketing and use of terms like breathable, but there is a difference between products that are absolutely waterproof and not breathable at all and waterproof/breathable products. It's a palpable difference. But I do agree that most rain gear is way overpriced, especially Gore-Tex. I usually try to fid it at a deep discount and accept its performance limitations. Rumi

"This is my Indian summer ... I'm far more dangerous now, because I don't care at all."
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Schroder
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PostFri Nov 03, 2023 6:57 am 
They're going to have to find something different to market because those PFA's are going to be banned. Unfortunately the chemists haven't found a replacement yet so we'll probably be going back to 10 lb pvc jackets Inside the Race to Get Forever Chemicals Out of Raincoats

Anne Elk, hikerbiker
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thunderhead
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PostSat Nov 04, 2023 11:18 pm 
Waterproof. Durable. Breathable. You get to choose 2. Even the old version of so-called dwr was never that durable. Blaming the environmental regs is just an excuse to try to hide the fact that gore-tex and similar were never holding up well.

Ski, Anne Elk
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Lazyhiker
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PostSun Nov 05, 2023 6:00 am 
A waxed tin cloth poncho is better than any goretex rain jacket

Ski
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schifferj
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PostTue Nov 07, 2023 3:47 pm 
I remember my first epic fail with gortex - a Frank Shorter running suit. It was neither breathable or waterproof. That said I happened on to Shakedry gortex with the gortex layer on the outside. Specifically a Norvan SL hoody. It is the closest thing to waterproof AND breathable as it gets! Never wets out and little to no condensation on the inside. This garment was designed for trail runners but I use it for backpacking and cycling. To the best of my knowledge shakedry is still available from gore but Arcteryx and Northface no longer use it.

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RumiDude
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PostTue Nov 07, 2023 7:13 pm 
I suppose it depends on what it is used for, but my experience with Gore-Tex has not been negative. I first used Gore-Tex in a ski jacket and absolutely loved it. I have had three more Gore-Tex ski jackets and frankly all of them worked fantastic. I even had a Gore-Tex cycling rain jacket that worked very well for me. I have had several WP/B rain jackets for hiking/backpacking and that is when I was less that satisfied. I had to slow down significantly to avoid sweeting out and the DWR seldom lasted very long. When it rains hard and all day, I have found that I am going to get wet regardless of the gear. A lot of sweat condenses on the inside and rain often gets in at vents, around the face and at the cuffs, etc., and so after a long day hiking in the rain it just all adds up. As far as rubberized and PVC rain gear, the Gore-Tex and other WB/B gear are in a different universe. I have had jobs that I used that old heavy non-breathable gear and it was horrible. It's not even close. Waxed rain gear is subject to leaking, in my experience. This usually happens in the places where the cloth is either rubbed by shoulder straps, belts, or where the garment is constantly folded and unfolded, like around a hood or the shoulders. So, not a big fan of waxed cloth rain gear either. All the rain gear has it's pros and cons and often it comes down to personal preference. My preference is lit weight which generally means Gore-Tex or similar WP/B rain gear. Rumi

"This is my Indian summer ... I'm far more dangerous now, because I don't care at all."
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Brian Curtis
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PostTue Nov 07, 2023 7:23 pm 
My first Gore Tex jacket, and the very first Gore-Tex rain jacket, was made by Early Winters. My opinion then is basically the same as my opinion now. Gore-Tex works best when it isn't raining. When it is raining I've never found a jacket that kept me dry while bashing through brush. Gore-Tex's comfort on days that aren't so wet hugely extends the comfort and usefulness of the jacket and those are the days I really like my breathable rainwear.

that elitist from silverdale wanted to tell me that all carnes are bad--Studebaker Hoch

mike, RumiDude
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treeswarper
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treeswarper
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PostTue Nov 14, 2023 3:07 pm 
Any raingear does not keep me dry if I'm moving. I'll be damp instead of soaked. That's just the way it is. Better have something dry to put on after running around in the outdoors.

What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities

reststep
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Randito
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Randito
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PostTue Nov 14, 2023 6:30 pm 
The combo that I'm using these days is a wind water repellent jacket + a silnylon poncho to wear over it when it's really raining. For mid summer hiking, I also will include an umbrella as this is also useful while hiking in the hot sun.

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mike
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PostTue Nov 14, 2023 8:21 pm 
One thing that I notice with breathable raincoats is that they are cooling. I think it is the "swamp cooler" effect. It takes energy to vaporize the moisture which can then get through the pores in the jacket. So you are continually pumping heat out. This isn't bad during activity but you feel it when you stop.

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Ski
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PostThu Nov 16, 2023 8:15 am 
As noted above, it's been well-known in the hiking and climbing community that "Gore-Tex" has a finite lifespan and isn't really all its made out to be. If you are concerned about PFAs, you can stop worrying. PFAs are in everything - even Antarctic marine life. Nobody gets out of here alive. a 1963 episode of "Twilight Zone" is frighteningly prescient- like the writers saw this coming.

"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach. I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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the1mitch
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PostThu Nov 16, 2023 10:14 am 
I am also a poncho fan. My latest rain kit is close to Randito's. I subscribe to the sacrificial shirt philosophy. A long sleeved synthetic or merino T shirt under a windbreaker that slows down but doesn't stop the rain, covered by a 6 x 9 sylnylon tarp with a head hole. A waterproof frog tog hat and a piece of line for a belt finish off the ensemble. At camp I switch out of the wet stuff and drape the soaked stuff to dry if possible. This system works for me as long as I can wriggle into the damp shirt and windbreaker in the morning right before hitting the trail. Oh yeah this rig keeps my pack dry as a bone and the breezy open sides keep me from over heating.

illegitimi non carborundum!
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bccarlso
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PostTue Nov 28, 2023 12:35 pm 
the1mitch wrote:
I am also a poncho fan. My latest rain kit is close to Randito's. I subscribe to the sacrificial shirt philosophy. A long sleeved synthetic or merino T shirt under a windbreaker that slows down but doesn't stop the rain, covered by a 6 x 9 sylnylon tarp with a head hole. A waterproof frog tog hat and a piece of line for a belt finish off the ensemble. At camp I switch out of the wet stuff and drape the soaked stuff to dry if possible. This system works for me as long as I can wriggle into the damp shirt and windbreaker in the morning right before hitting the trail. Oh yeah this rig keeps my pack dry as a bone and the breezy open sides keep me from over heating.
You buy a 6x9 silnylon tarp and cut a hole, or is there a specific product you use for that? How might it hold up during lots of bushwhacking? I imagine you'd want heavier denier silnylon.

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