Forum Index > Trail Talk > Geo-fenced Daily Enchantments Permit Applications
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Gwen
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Gwen
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PostFri Mar 15, 2024 11:04 pm 
Rec'd the following in an email from OKWEN this afternoon. BLM has been using this kind of system for day before permits since '22. I think the 1 mile radius is a little stingy, but it is what it is. This will be the future of permitting, methinks.
Quote:
Media Contact: Deborah Kelly, 509-670-0354 deborah.kelly@usda.gov Forest Service Changing the Enchantments "Daily Permit" Lottery to a Geofence Mobile Application Process in 2024 LEAVENWORTH, Wash., March 15, 2024 — Beginning in May 2024 the Okanogan-Wenatchee National Forest will be making a change to the Enchantment daily “walk-up permit” lottery. The process will be changing from an in-person lottery process to a new mobile-based geofence system for obtaining a daily lottery permit for the Enchantments. This transition to a new Enchantment daily lottery is designed to improve efficiencies for staff by eliminating a cumbersome manual lottery and permit system, while improving customer convenience. "The Okanogan Wenatchee is pleased to continue working with our National Forest reservation system, Recreation.gov, to pilot this new mobile technology and update the lottery process. Transitioning the lottery to a new digital process will help us free-up limited staff resources to better serve the public,” said Wenatchee River District Ranger Erica Taecker. “Both the Enchantments advanced and daily permit programs help the Forest Service manage the high visitor use that can result in resource damage if left unmanaged at this extremely popular, sensitive high-alpine destination.” The new mobile application process maintains elements of the legacy walk-up system by only allowing those lottery applicants who are physically located within an intentionally set geographic boundary, the ability to participate in the lottery via a location enabled smart phone or other location-enabled mobile device. In this case the “geo-fence” boundary identified by Forest Service managers for this pilot, is a 1-mile perimeter surrounding the Wenatchee River Ranger station. The requirement to be within the geo-fence boundary mimics the “in-person” aspect of the original lottery process; ensuring successful applicants are in the area and ready for the in-person resource/safety briefing and available to pick-up the printed permit for their trip departure the following day. More information on the new daily lottery process will be available in coming months. Check back for updates on the Forest Service Enchantments permit information web page: https://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/okawen/passes-permits/recreation/?cid=fsbdev3_053607. The current Advanced Lottery Enchantments permit process that annually runs in February will continue unchanged on Recreation.gov.

Tomorrow's not promised to anyone, so be bold, scare yourself, attempt something with no guarantee of success. You'll be amazed at what you can achieve. -Olive McGloin
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zimmertr
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zimmertr
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PostFri Mar 15, 2024 11:22 pm 
Lol.

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uww
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uww
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PostSat Mar 16, 2024 11:39 am 
Only $6 to enter the geofence.

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Cyclopath
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Cyclopath
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PostSat Mar 16, 2024 12:21 pm 
Somebody is going to rent out access to their tablet or extra phone, located within the geofence. You'll be able to use it to send the application from whenever you like. Like a VPN/VPS.

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zimmertr
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zimmertr
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PostSat Mar 16, 2024 12:36 pm 
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huron
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huron
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PostSat Mar 16, 2024 2:40 pm 
Forest Service are a little dim, aren't they? Spoofing location is trivial. Yes, this is a great idea. I'm getting inside that geofence right away.

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Cyclopath
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Cyclopath
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PostSat Mar 16, 2024 3:28 pm 
zimmertr wrote:
https://github.com/Schlaubischlump/LocationSimulator
This replaces your phone's GPS with anything you like. But remember your IP address is associated with your location too. That's why people who want to do this should use a local proxy.
huron wrote:
Forest Service are a little dim, aren't they? Spoofing location is trivial.
Sounds like it'll be done through recreation.gov. Their site works fine for Selenium bots, I don't think they really see it as a problem that some paying customers have an advantage, as long as they're getting paid.

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Chief Joseph
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PostSat Mar 16, 2024 3:43 pm 
Yet one more reason why I will never go there, O well. bawl.gif

Go placidly amid the noise and waste, and remember what comfort there may be in owning a piece thereof.
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BigBrunyonEnjoyerAI
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PostSat Mar 16, 2024 5:36 pm 
Here's the deal - I've been ISSUING permits geofenced to DRAGONTAIL PEAK SUMMIT just before dark!! Then when you lose you have to hike the rest of the way to Snow Lakes TH!!! It's a good option, if you don't have time for a good gym session.

uww
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Anne Elk
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Anne Elk
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PostSun Mar 17, 2024 8:47 am 
Or they could set up a ticket-issuing machine where you used to go to get your permit from a person - kinda like the ones in parking garages. Then, no location spoofing problem. Maybe in a few more years they'll have an army of "trail bots" to check the permits, etc. Bots don't need health insurance or a retirement plan. huh.gif

"There are yahoos out there. It’s why we can’t have nice things." - Tom Mahood
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Cyclopath
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Cyclopath
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PostSun Mar 17, 2024 12:54 pm 
It doesn't make sense to create an artificial geographic limit on who can apply for a permit. If a person in Marysville or Duvall wants to hike the Enchantments and has already done the other Leavenworth trails they're interested in, why shouldn't everybody benefit from saving them a trip? It's less gas being burned, it's less congestion on the highway and in L'worth. Made sense when it had to be done in person, but now it's going to be a bunch of people idling in their cars staring at their phones ... and people applying from home anyway because the technology is easy to side step.

Chief Joseph, zimmertr
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Get Out and Go
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PostSun Mar 17, 2024 1:44 pm 
As I live only a couple blocks behind the FS Office, sounds like I can try my luck for a permit in my bathrobe while sipping coffee, or just go back to bed. eyes.gif Oh, wait, I forgot. I don't frequent the Enchantments anymore these days. suuure.gif Too many other good destinations.

"These are the places you will find me hiding'...These are the places I will always go." (Down in the Valley by The Head and The Heart) "Sometimes you're happy. Sometimes you cry. Half of me is ocean. Half of me is sky." (Thanks, Tom Petty)

HitTheTrail, treeswarper, Chief Joseph
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thunderhead
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PostSun Mar 17, 2024 6:13 pm 
Anything that makes permits more likely for tech-savy folks i'm for, out of sheer greed. Seems a silly waste of time though.

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ejain
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ejain
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PostSun Mar 17, 2024 6:59 pm 
I'm assuming this was done because too many people were grabbing walk-up permits and then not showing up? Or locals wanted to have a better shot at getting a permit? Once they realize that people are still "cheating", perhaps they'll introduce a system based on Bluetooth Beacons, so you have to stand right next to or on top of the office 🙃

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BigBrunyon
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BigBrunyon
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PostSun Mar 17, 2024 10:40 pm 
An electric fence won't work because the guys who crawl thru the woods to GET IN will just start digging tunnels.

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